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Author Topic: What’s up?  (Read 895 times)

gilnavarro

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What’s up?
« on: February 23, 2018, 12:03:35 PM »
Pretty quiet here. Haven’t seen any updates since July. There was some talk about updating the dante drivers as well. Curious where things are at? Is develpment coming to a halt? I liked where things were heading with AMP.

jeffsco

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 03:53:43 PM »
The guys I work with will not let me use a "work in progress" like AMP. They barely let me use SAC.

I bought an X32 and now everyone is happy. I can mix on an Ipad or with a mouse all I want. They just like the fact that there is a physical console sitting there.

Ah well....they pay the bills.

Richard B. Ingraham

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 05:43:03 PM »
The guys I work with will not let me use a "work in progress" like AMP. They barely let me use SAC.

I bought an X32 and now everyone is happy. I can mix on an Ipad or with a mouse all I want. They just like the fact that there is a physical console sitting there.

Ah well....they pay the bills.

Unfortunate, but not surprising.  It's why I say that no matter who makes the software mixing console, there are only a handful that are going to go down that path.

Even with Waves name and recognition attached to it, it's not like you're seeing a big push from end users to dump the hardware console.

The only downside I see to your situation is the X32.  :-) 

They'll love it till it fails on you at some point.  I still refer to my one colleges story of when the X32 literally poured out smoke during a show and forced a show to cancel and give refunds.
Richard B. Ingraham

jlklein

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 07:10:17 PM »
The only downside I see to your situation is the X32.  :-) 
I still refer to my one colleges story of when the X32 literally poured out smoke during a show and forced a show to cancel and give refunds.

I remember being shocked seeing so many Behringer Composer Pros on a number of tours, and the touring sound folks would tell me that they sounded decent enough for live work, but the big advantage was that they were so cheap they considered them "consumables" and could afford plenty of backups in case one failed...so they left their higher end stuff at home.

Maybe folks should take the same tact with the X32...at that price pretty much anyone could afford a second one (at least speaking of larger campus or performance house situations).

Not that it's the only one that has issues. My friend's band has the Soundcraft UI and they have issues with it just resetting and rebooting now and then (it did it during their break the last gig I saw them at). They were about ready to pull out their old Mackie ProFX and be done with it.

Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
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Faith Baptist Church
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http://www.faithbc.net / @FBC_TechTeam
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Richard B. Ingraham

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 03:15:20 PM »
True, they all can have issues.  I'm not a Harman (now Samsung) fan either.  They are just the US version of Behringer to me.  Buy things up and then ruin them.

I guess I would just rather spend my money on something that will last a good 10 or more years.  Even Yamaha can die, but you don't see a ton of them in the dust bin until they are well past their prime. 

I guess you could always carry a spare Behringer.  LOL..  And there are probably plenty you can rent in a pinch if something happens as well.

One thing I do like about the software mixing console thing is that it's a modular system, so one device failure doesn't necessarily bring down the entire thing.  You can carry a few spare parts and get it back up and running fairly quickly. 
Richard B. Ingraham

mattseymour

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 01:04:27 PM »
I was rather hoping we'd have seen an update from Bob here by now... ah well.

admin

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 04:33:41 AM »
Well, I was hoping to be able to post something back at the first of the year, but we have had a few different lingering bugs that I want to work out, as they can cause some bad stuff to happen, more so than the last version posted here.  Just as soon as the RTPMidi code is fixed, I'll post what we have.  Some very nice things coming!

Bob

mattseymour

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 12:35:23 PM »
One day I'll learn to temper the swing between excitement and disappointment.... one day.

Richard B. Ingraham

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 01:03:33 PM »
One day I'll learn to temper the swing between excitement and disappointment.... one day.

I see nothing wrong with being excited about a product and hoping that it continues to improve or being disappointed when it doesn't live up to your expectations.  The key thing I've learned after going through the process with several specialized small market projects (particularly software)  is don't make plans until something is actually available.  Announcements and best laid plans are great and certainly deserve support.  But you never know what is going to happen and can not plan on implementing something that doesn't exist yet. 

I watched a ton of folks get burned by a product called MacFOH years ago.  It was going to be this awesome theatre sound tool with SMAART like analyser tools, playback, show control, etc...  The Analyser part came out....  the rest never did and several smart folks were duped into paying $600 for this in advance.

Richard B. Ingraham

jlklein

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 05:35:43 PM »
One thing I do like about the software mixing console thing is that it's a modular system, so one device failure doesn't necessarily bring down the entire thing.  You can carry a few spare parts and get it back up and running fairly quickly.

Yeah, me as well. We've recently moved to GLD's and one of my caveats was we need to have the same setup in FOH and Broadcast so if something died we had a backup (as you can always use GLD Editor with the FOH board for Broadcast in a pinch). We got a great deal on a <3yr old GLD w/a AR2412 and two AR84 stage boxes and ME-1 IEMs (our Gen 1 Avioms were all having issues), so that was a no brainer. The we found a demo GLD with the free AR2412 stage box and 100' CAT6 rebate and jumped on that. Now I've got a backup mixer, stageboxes and cable, which I can also use as our portable system now and then.

Alas it's fewer channels than I had with SAC and AMP, but 56 sources online and available to patch to 48 GLD channels is doable and the staff and musos have shut up about PC crashes and worries (and yes, I told them the GLD is also a computer <g>). Now they're on to complaining about MediaShout vs ProPresenter and Mac vs PC...which unfortunately are also my problem, lol.

Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Head Volunteer Sound Geek
Faith Baptist Church
Glen Burnie, Maryland
http://www.faithbc.net / @FBC_TechTeam
http://www.reverbnation.com/7thvoice / @7thVoiceMusic
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeff-klein/32/852/6ba

Richard B. Ingraham

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 06:23:51 PM »

Yeah, me as well. We've recently moved to GLD's and one of my caveats was we need to have the same setup in FOH and Broadcast so if something died we had a backup (as you can always use GLD Editor with the FOH board for Broadcast in a pinch). We got a great deal on a <3yr old GLD w/a AR2412 and two AR84 stage boxes and ME-1 IEMs (our Gen 1 Avioms were all having issues), so that was a no brainer. The we found a demo GLD with the free AR2412 stage box and 100' CAT6 rebate and jumped on that. Now I've got a backup mixer, stageboxes and cable, which I can also use as our portable system now and then.

Alas it's fewer channels than I had with SAC and AMP, but 56 sources online and available to patch to 48 GLD channels is doable and the staff and musos have shut up about PC crashes and worries (and yes, I told them the GLD is also a computer <g>). Now they're on to complaining about MediaShout vs ProPresenter and Mac vs PC...which unfortunately are also my problem, lol.

Jeff

Sounds like a good way to go.  I hear you on the channel counts.  That is one of the big issues for me that keeps me sticking to software mixing.  On the larger shows I work on I often have  60 or so inputs.  Granted it's only once or twice a year.  But even so.  Every time I think maybe I should just go with something off the shelf, I realize I'm either going to need two or three consoles to do the same thing and I won't have enough DCAs and I'll often need a DSP to handle all the routing because there is not enough buses and mixes.

Granted  there are consoles out there that could do all that, but nothing even close to being in my price range.  Add to that all the really nice remote options I have (especially with AMP and it's customizable UI)  that few hardware desks can match (Allen and Heath is one of the few that get it)  and it seems like the software console is really the best fit for my work.

I had a look at some interesting Crest/Peavey gear designed to work with Waves LV-1 software and their Soundgrid system.  The hardware (an I/O box and control surface) looked nice.  But I dug into the LV-1 software and their scene control was just OK.  They had no timed fade ability.  It needs some work to be theatre friendly for sure.

Sorry to hear that you also have to deal with Mac vs. PC.  I always say...  look over the years I've been responsible for many computer systems both Mac and PC based.  While the Mac OS I find to be nicer and more stable with less effort (for all the obvious reasons)  I find that the hardware I've spent the most time repairing or having repaired is by far the Apple computers.  I've had some clinker PCs over the years as well, but most of the stuff I've assembled myself or the Lenovo gear I use now have been far more reliable. 
Richard B. Ingraham

crazysubguy

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2018, 12:29:36 AM »
Hi! I spend the first part of this year slowly setting up AMP.  I used it live for the first time in April at the Dayton Convention Center.  Since I had never used it outside my living room lab until then, I used it to mixdown an orchestra into a B. X32 setup.  My setup used 16 orchestra mics through a TIO1608, then primary and secondary networks, to a DANTE card I got from NLE that was in a stand alone Win 7 computer.  For control I used a second computer with a touchscreen for the FOH orchestra mix. I also ran the 2nd host engine on the same host, but controlled it from a touchscreen laptop for a broadcast mix.  The FOH orchestra mix went to a FOH X32 through TIO analog outs, and the broadcast mix went to the broadcast mixer also through the TIO analog outs. (unfortunately the rental place did not have X32 Dante cards).

AMPmix performed flawlessly.  X32 not so much.  At one point I lost the X32 digital snake for a couple of seconds in the middle of a group singing.  No issues with Dante or AMPmix.

I did conclude that I want to get a fader surface of some kind.  I had several instrumental solos where I needed to ride the fader(s). Doing that with a touch screen requires significantly more attention then physical faders.

Hopefully I'm not posting in the wrong place! This seemed to be the most current thread, so I figured I would post here.

Richard B. Ingraham

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2018, 02:13:26 PM »

Hopefully I'm not posting in the wrong place! This seemed to be the most current thread, so I figured I would post here.

No worries, feel free to post wherever.  I only clean off obvious SPAM or blatant attacks. 

Typically I would suggest just starting a new thread as these things tend to get lost in wandering a thread takes over time. 

But the reality is this forum has so little traffic it's not really that big of a deal.

Glad to hear AMP is working out for you.  Keep us posted with future updates.
Richard B. Ingraham

jlklein

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2018, 02:22:55 PM »
Sounds like a good way to go.  I hear you on the channel counts.  That is one of the big issues for me that keeps me sticking to software mixing.  On the larger shows I work on I often have  60 or so inputs.  Granted it's only once or twice a year.  But even so.  Every time I think maybe I should just go with something off the shelf, I realize I'm either going to need two or three consoles to do the same thing and I won't have enough DCAs and I'll often need a DSP to handle all the routing because there is not enough buses and mixes.

Yeah, we're doing less pageants now so the need for 16 channels of wireless is gone, so that saves some channels, but I still have to submix my DVD players, dual CD deck, PC and laptop inputs but we were already doing that anyway. In place of pageants, we've tried out some dinner theater shows in our gym (even took one to a low-income area sister church in Western Md) and while we did use almost 16 channels then, it was track playback vice orchestra so we didn't need nearly as many channels as a full pageant. As it is now, I've got two layers for our Modern Service and 2 layers for our Traditional Service so it works out pretty well, and everything's there if we do a combined service (which we've been doing more of lately), so there's no real setup needed even if they surprised us with something (which they would *never* do, lol).

Hey Bob,
What's the possibility of incorporating other stagebox control into AMP? I know now we only have TIO's, is there any possibility of adding A&H stageboxes to that? I'd love to play around with that now that I've got them set up, as I'm using my AMP PC as my GLD Editor PC :)

Quote
Sorry to hear that you also have to deal with Mac vs. PC.  I always say...  look over the years I've been responsible for many computer systems both Mac and PC based.  While the Mac OS I find to be nicer and more stable with less effort (for all the obvious reasons)  I find that the hardware I've spent the most time repairing or having repaired is by far the Apple computers.  I've had some clinker PCs over the years as well, but most of the stuff I've assembled myself or the Lenovo gear I use now have been far more reliable.

Yeah, I'm not adverse to going with Mac when there's a good reason for it (i.e. BMD and ProPresenter are native to it and offer more features on Mac than their PC versions), but the "I'm a Mac guy and Macs are the be-all end-all" gets old. We're moving to Mac when we upgrade our video booth but only because our PCs are dying and we found that Davinci Resolve Lite for Mac is better featured than the "for PC" version and solves a lot of compatibility problems we've been experiencing. However, we're keeping our Windows projection computer when we upgrade from MediaShout to ProPresenter until someone shows me that it won't work. The 2nd Live Stream ProPresenter PC will be a Mac Mini but again, we have to buy a second video computer to run it anyway, and Mini's really fit the bill for our need and will make our whole video booth Mac, so there's a lot of advantages to do so.

Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Head Volunteer Sound Geek
Faith Baptist Church
Glen Burnie, Maryland
http://www.faithbc.net / @FBC_TechTeam
http://www.reverbnation.com/7thvoice / @7thVoiceMusic
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeff-klein/32/852/6ba

admin

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Re: What’s up?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2018, 05:17:00 AM »
Hey Jeff,

A&H stageboxes are probably not going to be a reality unless we go the route of creating an ACE interface.  I looked into that one quite heavily a while back, and even had a read-only driver semi-working, but with the advent of Dante (and possibly some AES67 stuff in the future), the cost-effectiveness of the A&H gear puts it much lower.

A&H does sort of get it, but they actually *really* need a GUI like AMP to bring out better control of that mixer.  It's bussing is also severely limiting.  The DLive stuff is better, and we are entertaining creating an AMP "host" for it.

Probably the best thing you can do for your GLD is get an (overpriced) Dante card for it, so that you can then interface it with other things (even AMP with DVS works ok).

Bob