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General Discussion / Re: Windows 10 Auto Updates
« Last post by Richard B. Ingraham on September 17, 2018, 01:19:05 AM »
I really don't know what I do or what others are doing that I am not that causes the issues though. 

I guess I'm just no guts no glory type of person.   :)

I literally updated all my Win 7 and 8 machines that were capable of running Win 10 as soon as it was available and I haven't looked back.  I can't remember s single time an update has screwed anything up for other than annoying me by having to wait longer for a restart at an inconvenient time.

I've never understood the whole I'm never going to update my machines things.  I mean I get it for things like an ATM.  But even my production computers that run shows I don't treat them like their an ATM. 

Oh well, to each their own.  I find Win 10 to be far better than working on older versions of Windows.  And when I have to go back to 7 or XP it drives me crazy.
General Discussion / Re: Windows 10 Auto Updates
« Last post by brettbrandon on September 17, 2018, 01:06:49 AM »
I don't have Windows 10 or have any plan on using it for as long as possible but would definately check this out if I was...
General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by Richard B. Ingraham on September 15, 2018, 11:15:10 PM »
To circle back around to the initial topic here, I think I may have come up with a way to affordably go down the Dante path.  So if I start with two TIO 1608s and the PCI card that gets me 32x16, which is enough for smaller shows, by using DVS for any playback needs.

But on a my larger shows I often have remote orchestra pits that are in another room or very far offstage or upstage these days.  So my thought was that until i could afford a third or fourth TIO box was to use a computer in the pit with some of my existing gear and I would either run the AMP host right on that computer, controlled from another instance of GUI at FOH and just submix all the orchestra in the pit and send out a few stereo feeds to the house mixer.  Or, I could also test out how much latency I get with Dante VIA and just turn that local I/O into Dante I/O.  I figure worst case using an AMP host submix adds 5 to 7 ms of additional latency.   For the orchestra channels that's rarely going to be a big deal and if it's a truly remote pit it really won't matter as the audience hears almost no direct sound.  In the best case, the latency for VIA is low enough that I don't even need to submix locally the computer just becomes a virtual stage box in the pit. 

I'll just have to get a VIA license and see what kind of latency I can get. 

General Discussion / Windows 10 Auto Updates
« Last post by Richard B. Ingraham on September 15, 2018, 10:09:32 PM »
Starting a new thread, because I'm fussy like that...

So, just curious, do none of these methods actually keep Win 10 from updating itself?  I'll admit I have not bothered to try because as I mentioned it's not caused any issues for me.  But I would hope that some of these would work?
General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by Richard B. Ingraham on September 15, 2018, 10:04:39 PM »
Wow, interesting.  I have yet to see this happen myself.  But then I always just run the updates as soon as they are available.  So far I guess I've just lucked out and it hasn't caused any issues. 

I suspect the bigger reason there isn't more outcry from audio types anyway is that so few are still using Windows for audio.  Only the installed "AV systems" seem to make much use of Windows to me.  Whenever I go to a theatre, I feel like I'm the only one that is still using a PC and not a Mac.

But wouldn't using Linux host severely limit the number of audio interfaces AMP could support?  I may be in the minority but I would hate to see that change.  Flexibility in using the hardware that fits your needs is what makes software mixing attractive in my opinion. 
General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by jlepore on September 15, 2018, 03:27:16 PM »
If you wanted to get into the business of supplying the full OS you could just as easily go to Win embedded for the server side since you don't need much services anyway, and have control of the updates.  It's what Avid has done for years and you never have to worry about the OS changing underneath you.
General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by admin on September 15, 2018, 11:52:39 AM »
Weíve been looking at many options, especially since a windows update just destroyed one of my special audio test systems. Canít believe that people donít put up a bigger fight against MS just removing software that it feels like removing. That really makes win10 unusable for any serious critical applications. I guess that forces us to use something like their embedded versions.

A Linux host could be as simple as an iso. There are quite a few programs Iíve used that come like that - burn the iso, boot and install. We are a little ways off from that. It would be very nice though to have a ďboxĒ similar to the Allen and heath designs that would have the host and some minimal I/o in it, expandable via network.

General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by crazysubguy on September 14, 2018, 12:05:28 AM »
I enjoy the discussion that happens on this forum.  Since the forum seems to be having a few days of fewer posts, I thought I would ask some questions related to several of the previous posts along with the linux question.

I see the use of case of those who are looking for a sophisticated mixer for less money and those who like to tinker with computers (both me) as the market for a linux version.  I agree there is not much linux pro audio computer sound hardware support, but both AES67 and AVB support could be included in the amp host software.  AES67 is now compatible with DANTE hardware (i.e. Yamaha TIO 1608) as well.  The only hardware then needed for the host PC would be a quality NIC.  Those are well supported by and for linux. 

There are many ways to go about a linux version, but one that would be fairly simple, is to develop using a specific distro (Arch linux maybe with the real time patch, or Ubuntu Server LTS).  Only the amp host executable would need to be distributed, but there could be a specific forum thread or sticky that states the tested linux distro and base configuration, and the rest would be up to the user. I've set up dozens of linux (and Windows) systems and that would be infinitely easier then what I had to do to get Windows 7 (or 10) configured. Most linux OS installs are pretty close to a few questions like name, password, timezone, and then click install.  You could even do completely without a screen.   The amp host control window is so simple that a remote log in terminal console with numeric list of options would allow a setup with no video overhead and the associated interrupts (probably could do this part in the windows version as well). On a related note, it would also be nice if the GUI had a window that remotely displayed and controlled the host regardless of OS.

If new versions of Windows allowed control of the OS like 7 and earlier, then I would be less of a proponent for a linux amp host version.  But if Windows keeps going in the current direction with less and less user control, will Ampmix even be able to get the right priority in a future Windows update or version?

Just my 2 cents.  If a linux version never happens, I will keep using the Windows version.

Good luck with your potential turnkey service.  I'm all for anything that promotes and furthers AMP and the R&D behind it.
General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by Richard B. Ingraham on September 13, 2018, 11:01:37 PM »
I don't mean to be negative nor do I speak for Bob in any way, but I hope we don't go down the Linux path.  I know there are advantages but really only for turn key and prosperity solutions.   Linux is what drives at least 2 or 3 of the major sound desks.  But it's not an off the shelf solution.   The sound community has been waiting for years for reasonable,  working audio software and hardware for Linux and few have ever come.  I know there are some, but are any of them really pro level solutions,  expect perhaps RME?

I just don't see it as a viable option.   Making turn key systems just means making AMP another hardware desk and it would require a cost to pay Bob for his time and support.   I see little point in trying to compete in the crowded market.  As we saw with SAC, as soon as reasonably decent cheap hardware desks came along the interest in software mixing dropped.  The X32 and others reduced the need for SAC drastically.   The only markets where software mixing makes sense is those that really need a sophisticated mixer for less money, those that just really love to tinker with computers and those that really need some of the unique advantages of software mixing like lots of clients talking to a single host or scalability or in the case of AMP a very customizable UI.  Too name a few.

But lots of folks just don't need that or if they do they can afford the big buck consoles.

Just saying that I don't think that holds a lot of promise.  And I don't think there is much profit to be had in turn key AMP solutions.   Having said that, I have been thinking about providing that service myself, so maybe I'll find out.  Ha.

Just my opinion.
General Discussion / Re: Did some math and estimating
« Last post by crazysubguy on September 13, 2018, 10:07:11 PM »
1.  I had some free time tonight and was looking at AES67 virtual drivers.   I noticed there are several advertising linux virtual sound drivers.  like this one: .   Latency for the AES67  virtual drivers seemed to be on the order of 48 samples (2.2 ms round trip?) which, in advertising at least, seems to be better than DVS.

2.  I currently have a windows 7 pc with amp host and a windows 10 pc with amp gui. Windows 10 is mostly for the improved multi touch monitor support.  Both computers took hours of customization of settings and services to get setup.  The Win 10 computer needs another look because I missed turning off the option that allows updates from alternate locations. Like another fully updated Win 10 laptop on the audio network that I connected as a wireless remote.  The Win 10 PC evidently updated from the laptop even though I have never connected it to the internet since the initial install, updates, and settings/services configuration.

3.  Is there any possibility of a linux amphost?  I know Dante hardware drivers are hard to come by, but if AES support was built in (or used one of the linux virtual drivers), the host would still be usable with other Dante hardware. Big advantage would be the complete control of the OS.  Bob could also offer a complete turnkey package that didn't rely on fickle windows updates that destroy the ideal setup.

4. Of course there may be other issues:
     a. not many linux plugins (but the number is growing) for future VST support (I'm not convinced I need that though -
         I'm more interested in a rock-solid host and would rather run VST plugins somewhere else);
     b. would other formats be supported in the linux version?  AVB?
     c. more overhead supporting linux, windows, apple?
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