Audio Mixing Platform (AMP)

General Category => Controllers => Topic started by: admin on November 12, 2015, 01:54:54 AM

Title: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on November 12, 2015, 01:54:54 AM
Just got my new X-Touch in.  I've not had the Mackie one, but from what I gather, this pretty much is the same as the Mackie, just cheaper.  It will require a bit of additional GUI code, but I am very excited about this - it has colored scribble strips, 9 faders, and a ton of buttons that we can make good use of.  It can connect via MIDI, USB, or network (rtpMIDI).

The faders aren't super fast, but are faster than the Motormix.   Even has 8-segment channel meters!

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: jlklein on November 12, 2015, 12:34:54 PM
I'll be watching that with interest. Not a big Behringer fan, but my Motormixes are getting long in the tooth and that does look pretty sweet, esp with touch sensitive faders, scribble strips, meters and illuminated buttons.

Jeff
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: RBIngraham on November 12, 2015, 10:48:16 PM
I am more interested in its cheaper little brother, no scrible strips, but cheaper and not so many unuseful controls that would waste a ton of space by the time you get 24 to 32 faders.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on November 13, 2015, 04:34:49 AM
I'm about to buy one or the other... I suspect the scribble strips will win me over as I'm likely to only ever have one. Looking forward to being able to make good use of it ;)
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on November 13, 2015, 07:10:30 AM
Ok... done it. Ordered one. Here's hoping it isn't too long before I'm able to use all those lovely scribble strips in some sort of AMP native way ;)
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on November 17, 2015, 05:09:30 PM
Marvellous... It's arrived. Is there any way I can use it currently?

I've had a little play in SAC using the MCU template and all seems to be working. I don't think there's a way to program the X-touch like the BCF so am I right in thinking I'm at a dead end until there's a control template?
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on November 17, 2015, 09:49:31 PM
It actually will work with the Motormix template; however, the faders will return to off unless it gets a ping command from the host.  It's a REALLY DUMB thing, but that's the way it works.  The Mackie is the same way.  You'll notice that it will follow the GUI.

Work is progressing on the GUI's MIDI code, so hopefully soon...

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on November 18, 2015, 04:47:58 AM
Super. I'll appear to wait patiently, whilst really jumping about like an over-excited three year old.

I presume the aim will be to fully support the controller, with its myriad of buttons, including the high res scribble strips.

I'm so far quite impressed with the controller. Faders and buttons feel nice. The only bit that feels a bit cheap to me is the scrub wheel. I'm looking forward to using it. Had a few occasions recently when I could have done with some physical faders, but I couldn't have the noise of a BCF.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on November 18, 2015, 09:23:03 AM
Hey Matt,

That's a great take-away on the X-touch - I totally agree.  And yes, we do plan on fully using the scribble strips.

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: JeremyJo on November 18, 2015, 11:48:16 AM
Fo grins I've made some annotations on an image of the X-Touch suggesting what various controls would do in AMP.  I'm sure there are limitations and I'm sure I've missed, or misinterpreted what the unit can do. I'm also sure that other folks would have different desires, but at least this might get the conversation started. If we can build a general consensus within the limitations of the box and AMP, then maybe the X-Touch would be a good control surface for AMP:
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on November 19, 2015, 01:57:00 AM
Every button/control just outputs midi data, either notes or cc so everything can be used with the right template. Whether it's useful to have quite so many buttons I'm the real world is another matter.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 05, 2015, 12:08:20 PM
Having played with this a bit more, I'm guessing we're going to need to wait for more firmware before this controller can really be used to it's capabilities. It's currently only able to emulate Mackie Control. I don't see how you access the high res, coloured scribble strip capabilities at the moment.

Behringer have promised the x-touch can be used with the X series mixers, which all use OSC for their control. I'm presuming/hoping the X-touch series will support OSC in the near future.

Does amp talk OSC, and is that something that's on the cards? Again... Kinda guessing it will be as that's how you'd talk to the X series mixers.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 05, 2015, 12:22:13 PM
OSC is a very slow protocol, because you have to interpret text strings.  The MCU mode of the X-Touch is actually very good.  I've got it working here.  There's still more to do for full functionality, but its a decent little box!  Will be posting a test gui soon so you can start messing with it.

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 05, 2015, 01:20:28 PM
I'll look forward to that. Had to break out the BCF for some stuff coming up next week. Gosh it's all cheap and gritty and noisy and urgh.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 05, 2015, 04:25:31 PM
I'm probably a bit quick off the mark, but I've just tried the 0.9.59 GUI just uploaded and it doesn't start, at least on XP. I get a Windows plugin missing error.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 05, 2015, 10:28:11 PM
Ah, you were quick in finding that! :-)  We forgot to include a folder in with the .zip.. Just uploaded the revised file with the proper files.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 07, 2015, 09:20:58 AM
Hi Bob, with the Mackie Control template does the main fader always control the main LR out (assuming there is one) once I've set the controller to 9 faders?
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: RBIngraham on December 07, 2015, 10:00:15 AM
Hi Bob, with the Mackie Control template does the main fader always control the main LR out (assuming there is one) once I've set the controller to 9 faders?

I have not played with that particular template and controller, but unless it works differently than every other controller set up in AMP, no it doesn't always do that.

You can make it do that by going into your controller set up and then locking that 9th controller to the channel number of your "main fader", whatever channel that happens to be.  And then you would have that same functionality but without being locked into using what someone else thinks should always be your main fader.  If you catch my drift there...

Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 07, 2015, 10:30:00 AM
Aha.... so, as I essentially ask bits of the same question in different threads it all comes together.

Excellent. I'll give that a try.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 09, 2015, 05:36:10 AM
So I tried fixing fader 9 of the X-touch to my 'master' DCA and it didn't work. I found the GUI just ignored whatever I put in that box and fader 9 carried on being the ninth fader.

In case it's significant I was running the x-touch as the second controller with a BCF as the first. The BCF was fixed onto another 8 DCAs and that worked just fine. I didn't have time to experiment with this any further.

When switching between mixes I'd like the controller to return to where it was, rather than the far left channel. Is there an option for this?
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: RBIngraham on December 09, 2015, 10:35:45 AM
Sounds like either a bug in AMP GUI itself or a big in the controller template.

Just to be certain, in your GUI preferences, on the Controller Tab/Icon, you have the X-Touch set up as Ctrl 2.  It is set for 9 channels and you set the lock on the 9th fader to the channel of your choosing and checked the little box to lock it?

It's pretty self explanatory but I figured I would double check.

I know I have a template for my little Korg Nano and it has 9 faders and it worked fine with locking.  At least the last time I checked anyway.  So I suspect a bug has cropped up someplace.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 09, 2015, 11:07:52 AM
Hey Matt,

Hmm, that should not be happening.  I'll have to try it here later today.  So you're saying what when you made fader 9 "Fixed", it did not stay fixed?  What about the other channels - did you try that with them?  Did it change with Mixes, or VIew groups?

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 09, 2015, 11:58:20 AM
Hi Bob, Richard, yes that's right. BCF was controller 1 with all its faders fixed on channels (DCAs in this case) and that worked fine. X-Touch was controller 2 with 9 faders. I didn't try fixing any of the other faders, just fader 9. My plan was to use it as an overall master.

With the tick box checked and the channel selected, it was ignored. Fader 9 behaved as if I hadn't fixed it.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 11, 2015, 09:59:01 PM
BTW, here are the "innards".  Separate fader board, but one board for all the rest.  Very un-motormix-like! :-)  Unfortunately, no way to just "cut out" the button area.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: skuithe on December 13, 2015, 06:16:48 PM
They make an 8 fader extender that does not have the transport and all yhe buttons.

It's  just like the mackie mcu pro extender.

SK
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on December 13, 2015, 07:25:20 PM
Do you mean the X-touch compact? That one, crucially, doesn't have scribble strips. So it's a nicer set of faders than a bcf2000 but probably not any more functional.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: RBIngraham on December 13, 2015, 09:30:47 PM
Yes I am aware of the X touch compact.  And as I have mentioned before I don't really care about scribble strips.  They are nice to have but I will trade saving space for lack of scribble strips.  To me what is more unfortunate is that the compact is USB only.  That ethernet interface would be really cool.

For me personally even the compact has a lot of waste.  Hell so does the BCF really. 

Perhaps some day we'll find a simple box with 24 faders, mutes ands solos. Select buttons and scribble strips optional.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 14, 2015, 10:27:51 AM
SO now is a good time to ask: what would you guys like to see the 8 rotary encoders on the left side  of the X-touch compact do?  Sure wish it had *some* kind of identifier so that we could make the top 8 encoders do different things, and  be able to quickly identify just what they are controlling.

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: RBIngraham on December 14, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
My vote would be to just make them another "channel" that could be locked down to any fader of our choosing.  But I realize for those that back around that's probably a big pain in the ass and not desirable.

In taking a better look at the picture... one thing is for certain.  I wouldn't want that bottom row of buttons to do anything!  Way too easy to push by accident.  In fact that looks so damn non ergonomic that I might just have to rethink even bothering with these things.  What a stupid place to put buttons, right where you want to place your wrist.

Oh well... don't pay any attention to me.  What I want is probably not what most want so I'll just have to bug you for help in modifying the template to my liking later.   :)
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: skuithe on December 14, 2015, 11:01:49 PM
Do you mean the X-touch compact? That one, crucially, doesn't have scribble strips. So it's a nicer set of faders than a bcf2000 but probably not any more functional.
Sorry I was thinking of the icon controller line.

KUI
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 15, 2015, 01:04:28 AM
Actually, having the Solo button on the bottom isn't too bad.  It makes soloing a bit easier, and you don't kill something if you hit it by accident.  I think Soundcraft does that also.

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: RBIngraham on December 15, 2015, 10:03:47 AM
Maybe...  but I hate having anything "under" where my hands are supposed to go.  It's like all those desks in the analog days that would put the scribble strip at the bottom of the faders.  STUPID!  When your hand is on the faders you can no longer see the labels!

Who thinks up this shit?  Clearly not folks that actually mix anything during the shows.

I would never use Soundcraft as a good example of much of anything other than in the analog days many of their desks sounded pretty nice.  But I don't remember a single one I've used that I actually thought was ergonomically well laid out.  Lots of odd controls that were laid out in backwards fashion.  Especially their master sections on the analog beasts.  Often a pain in the ass to find the right dial.

Anyway I think those buttons are not only worthless but also get in the way of comfortable mixing.  Maybe I would feel differently if I got to play with one "in the flesh" so to speak.  But that's my gut reaction.

Actually I'm glad Steve reminded me of the iCon gear.  The Qcon Ex actually looks about right to me.  And if you do want the one with all the buttons and knobs on it, you could get a Qcon Pro and then a couple of Ex units and they appear to have the same footprint, which is nice.  The expander also has the scribble strip.

The iControl Pro might even be useful for personal mixing tasks.

Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on December 15, 2015, 10:47:59 AM
Does anyone here have any of the Qcon boxes?
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on February 26, 2016, 04:19:01 AM
I notice Behringer have released updated firmware with a mode for controlling the X-Air mixers. Looks like this gives access to scribble strip colour and, maybe, the high res display.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on March 09, 2016, 10:51:35 AM
Also, appears to be an extension of the MCU protocol rather than OSC so perhaps not to difficult to implement in AMP....

Bob, let me know if I can be any help gathering info. I can probably get hold of an X-air mixer and snoop the communication between it and the X-Touch if that's any use.

Cheers
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on March 09, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
HI Matt,

Oh, it now does color?!  Yes, would definitely like to know what they did for that!  Any info you could figure out would be most helpful!  I don't have an X-air here.

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on March 09, 2016, 03:06:18 PM
I'll see if I can get hold of an x-air and see what I can find out.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on March 09, 2016, 10:18:31 PM
Looks like some others are looking for the same: http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?9114-X-Touch-Scribble-Color
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: admin on August 06, 2016, 10:52:09 PM
Just an update: the X-Touch seems to work rather nicely over the network using the rtpMIDI program.  It even seems to work after a reboot! :-)

This is the first step in getting the colored scribble strips working.

Bob
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on August 08, 2016, 03:49:53 AM
Hurrah! I completely failed in my attempts to get some packet captures between an X-Touch and an XR18... Sorry.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on October 30, 2016, 05:52:16 PM
Useful stuff here in case it's new to anyone. http://www.budgetfeatures.com/XctlDOC/Xctl%20Protocol%20for%20X-Touch%20V1.0.pdf
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: fdew on January 13, 2017, 01:07:56 PM
I just went over to the Behringer forum.  (Huge step for me)  I was looking for a blank template that I can edit.  I ran across the following

https://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?12571-Nice-add-on-(missing-part-in-the-XTOUCH-)

It allows you to use the X-touch on your wireless WiFi network for $18.  I am a big fan of the FOH being hardwired, but for other uses it might be handy.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: hclague on January 13, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
Hi Guys

Looking at getting a hold of an X-touch compact controller. What files will I need to get it to work with AMP and where are they located for download? Planning on using it connected via USB to start.

Thanks

Hal
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: mattseymour on January 14, 2017, 12:26:45 PM
Nothing extra needed. Stick it in MC USB mode and select the mackie control template.
Title: Re: Behringer X-Touch
Post by: hclague on January 14, 2017, 12:35:50 PM
Cool. Thanks Matt